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MarioWiki:Proposals: Difference between revisions
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#{{User|Hewer}} I'd add that "comedic" should be used instead to get across that something is meant to be funny while using more objective language, but otherwise, sure, I'll humour this idea. | #{{User|Hewer}} I'd add that "comedic" should be used instead to get across that something is meant to be funny while using more objective language, but otherwise, sure, I'll humour this idea. | ||
#{{User|Ray Trace}} We should just get rid of that subjective adjective altogether, let readers decide from the context of the quote if it's humorous or not, we don't need to write an editorial about it (ie sentences such as "Patrick gets caught by Sandy's lasso and dragged back, resulting in a nuclear explosion" already conveys to the reader that it's comedic) | #{{User|Ray Trace}} We should just get rid of that subjective adjective altogether, let readers decide from the context of the quote if it's humorous or not, we don't need to write an editorial about it (ie sentences such as "Patrick gets caught by Sandy's lasso and dragged back, resulting in a nuclear explosion" already conveys to the reader that it's comedic) | ||
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all. | |||
====Oppose==== | ====Oppose==== | ||
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#{{User|MCD}} Per all. | #{{User|MCD}} Per all. | ||
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Per [[Gallery:Mario Kart Tour course icons|Gallery:''Mario Kart Tour'' course icons]] (I'm mentioning this in the support reasoning to bring attention to it). The wiki can keep its absurdly large Spriters Resource-esque collection of course icons without looking like a blemish on text-based articles. | #{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Per [[Gallery:Mario Kart Tour course icons|Gallery:''Mario Kart Tour'' course icons]] (I'm mentioning this in the support reasoning to bring attention to it). The wiki can keep its absurdly large Spriters Resource-esque collection of course icons without looking like a blemish on text-based articles. | ||
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all. | |||
====Oppose==== | ====Oppose==== | ||
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::::::::::Something like [[Tour New York Minute#Gallery|New York Minute]] looks organized well to me. I think the [[Gallery:Mario_Kart_Tour_course_icons#In-game_icons|in-game icons section of the ''Mario Kart Tour'' course icon gallery]] is significantly more difficult to navigate, burdens my computer, and all without substantive cause. Nintendo did not put this together. They did not create these icons with the intent of them being lumped together in a gallery anywhere. ''We'' did that. We are the only reason this exists at all. We should not be using them as an excuse to not disseminate information in an intuitive and healthy manner. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 12:09, May 14, 2024 (EDT) | ::::::::::Something like [[Tour New York Minute#Gallery|New York Minute]] looks organized well to me. I think the [[Gallery:Mario_Kart_Tour_course_icons#In-game_icons|in-game icons section of the ''Mario Kart Tour'' course icon gallery]] is significantly more difficult to navigate, burdens my computer, and all without substantive cause. Nintendo did not put this together. They did not create these icons with the intent of them being lumped together in a gallery anywhere. ''We'' did that. We are the only reason this exists at all. We should not be using them as an excuse to not disseminate information in an intuitive and healthy manner. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 12:09, May 14, 2024 (EDT) | ||
:::::::::::I usually don't have problems with loading things on this site and yeah, even I struggled on that gallery, so I suppose you're right there. However, it's a moot point either way since that's not the gallery being affected by this proposal. The galleries on the course pages, such as that of New York Minute, are what this proposal is about, and are what I've been describing. And my point with the "Nintendo's fault" thing was more that we generally strive to include as much coverage on the franchise as we can, and icons are a very usual thing for us to include a complete set of in galleries (even just regarding sprites in Mario Kart, I'm pretty sure we have every single course icon from all the other Mario Kart games, not to mention [[emblem]]s, [[Lists of sponsors|sponsors]], etc.). I don't think the repetitiveness of Mario Kart Tour's icons (which is Nintendo's fault) is a good reason for us to not do the same as we usually do with this game. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 12:36, May 14, 2024 (EDT) | :::::::::::I usually don't have problems with loading things on this site and yeah, even I struggled on that gallery, so I suppose you're right there. However, it's a moot point either way since that's not the gallery being affected by this proposal. The galleries on the course pages, such as that of New York Minute, are what this proposal is about, and are what I've been describing. And my point with the "Nintendo's fault" thing was more that we generally strive to include as much coverage on the franchise as we can, and icons are a very usual thing for us to include a complete set of in galleries (even just regarding sprites in Mario Kart, I'm pretty sure we have every single course icon from all the other Mario Kart games, not to mention [[emblem]]s, [[Lists of sponsors|sponsors]], etc.). I don't think the repetitiveness of Mario Kart Tour's icons (which is Nintendo's fault) is a good reason for us to not do the same as we usually do with this game. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 12:36, May 14, 2024 (EDT) | ||
:::::::::::”Nintendo did not put this together. They did not create these icons with the intent of them being lumped together in a gallery anywhere. ''We'' did that.”<br>Then again, Nintendo also didn’t evolve Mario into an expansive franchise with the intent of having it documented by fans on MarioWiki. We are the architects of that endeavor. What Nintendo’s intent was with any given part of this franchise shouldn’t be germane to this site’s purposes. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 06:49, May 16, 2024 (EDT) | |||
Had an idea. What are y'all — on both sides here — y'all's thoughts on making an article {{fake link|List of course icons in ''Mario Kart Tour''}}, or maybe {{fake link|Gallery:''Mario Kart Tour''/Course icons}} or something, which could have subheaders for all the courses, maybe even the different variants of the courses. Then, we can easily stick a "see also" template into those gallery sections, linked to the section on that course in that article, and can trim down the images to put less of a strain on bandwidth. [[User:Ahemtoday|Ahemtoday]] ([[User talk:Ahemtoday|talk]]) 15:17, May 13, 2024 (EDT) | Had an idea. What are y'all — on both sides here — y'all's thoughts on making an article {{fake link|List of course icons in ''Mario Kart Tour''}}, or maybe {{fake link|Gallery:''Mario Kart Tour''/Course icons}} or something, which could have subheaders for all the courses, maybe even the different variants of the courses. Then, we can easily stick a "see also" template into those gallery sections, linked to the section on that course in that article, and can trim down the images to put less of a strain on bandwidth. [[User:Ahemtoday|Ahemtoday]] ([[User talk:Ahemtoday|talk]]) 15:17, May 13, 2024 (EDT) | ||
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:::::::::::That's okay. I responded with surprise because, in my experience at least, asset dumps have negative connotations for curatorial projects like wikis, encyclopedias, etc. They are not tied to comprehensiveness or to provide information. They are aggregations for aggregations' sake. If that is something you feel should be supported on the wiki, that's fair, but I don't think that is the active standard. Users have removed sound files, quotes, ''Mario Party'' minigame textures, etc. without this kind of pushback. The only place where that could be be appropriate are dedicated depositories like the Spriters-Resource, and I wouldn't even call them asset dumps. They are beautifully organized and easy to navigate. | :::::::::::That's okay. I responded with surprise because, in my experience at least, asset dumps have negative connotations for curatorial projects like wikis, encyclopedias, etc. They are not tied to comprehensiveness or to provide information. They are aggregations for aggregations' sake. If that is something you feel should be supported on the wiki, that's fair, but I don't think that is the active standard. Users have removed sound files, quotes, ''Mario Party'' minigame textures, etc. without this kind of pushback. The only place where that could be be appropriate are dedicated depositories like the Spriters-Resource, and I wouldn't even call them asset dumps. They are beautifully organized and easy to navigate. | ||
:::::::::::Super Mario Wiki is not the only site I help edit and curate. In my experience, trimming is just part of the process, and it really bothers me that it is being treated as an objective wrong. Wanting to keep the ''Tour'' galleries is one thing. Asserting that removing any of these images compromises the "completeness" of the site is just not true. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 20:26, May 14, 2024 (EDT) | :::::::::::Super Mario Wiki is not the only site I help edit and curate. In my experience, trimming is just part of the process, and it really bothers me that it is being treated as an objective wrong. Wanting to keep the ''Tour'' galleries is one thing. Asserting that removing any of these images compromises the "completeness" of the site is just not true. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 20:26, May 14, 2024 (EDT) | ||
::::::::::::I don’t think anyone here is arguing that trimming content into something neater is objectively wrong. Some are simply saying that putting these dedicated course icons into course pages is the intuitive thing to do, but that’s repeating the same talking point over and over. What I fundamentally disagree with is the notion that this site cannot have designated spaces for the aggregation of content, like images or quotes, with some users going as far as to advocate removing these icons altogether for reasons that range from subjective (“I don’t like them because they’re too repetitive”) to arbitrary and plainly wrong (“they occupy too much space on the server”-they all make up less than 300mb spread among thousands of thumbnails measuring kilobytes, a tiny amount in a sea of upwards to [[Special:MediaStatistics|80,000MB]] worth of media files) {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 06:40, May 16, 2024 (EDT) | |||
::::::::Just to be completely clear in case there's any doubt, Gallery:Mario Kart Tour course icons will not be affected by this proposal. Only the galleries on course pages will. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 02:58, May 15, 2024 (EDT) | ::::::::Just to be completely clear in case there's any doubt, Gallery:Mario Kart Tour course icons will not be affected by this proposal. Only the galleries on course pages will. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 02:58, May 15, 2024 (EDT) | ||
:::::::::Ok, I knew that, I just didn't like that people thought that it would. The gallery's not the problem, and neither is the Kanaami Road page. [[User:SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)]] ([[User talk:SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|talk]]) 08:28, May 15, 2024 (EDT) | :::::::::Ok, I knew that, I just didn't like that people thought that it would. The gallery's not the problem, and neither is the Kanaami Road page. [[User:SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)]] ([[User talk:SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|talk]]) 08:28, May 15, 2024 (EDT) | ||
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#{{User|Jazama}} Per all. | #{{User|Jazama}} Per all. | ||
#{{User|Hooded Pitohui}} Per Nintendo101. | #{{User|Hooded Pitohui}} Per Nintendo101. | ||
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all. | |||
====Comments==== | ====Comments==== | ||
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#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} Well, it's either this, merge the Paper Mario characters into their OG versions like the 1990's Live-Action Mario Movie counterparts, re-split said counterparts, or keep as-is, and that's not even factoring in ALL THE OTHER COUNTERPARTS! | #{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} Well, it's either this, merge the Paper Mario characters into their OG versions like the 1990's Live-Action Mario Movie counterparts, re-split said counterparts, or keep as-is, and that's not even factoring in ALL THE OTHER COUNTERPARTS! | ||
#{{User|Jazama}} Per all | #{{User|Jazama}} Per all | ||
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all. | |||
====Comments==== | ====Comments==== | ||
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#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} Yeah, no. We might as well take the stance of Sega on Sonic's canon, "Everything is canon". Then again, in the words of {{@|janMisali}}, "How do we know what's mainline?" That only talked about video games, but also could apply to non-games, but I think we need to play safe, so oppose. | #{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} Yeah, no. We might as well take the stance of Sega on Sonic's canon, "Everything is canon". Then again, in the words of {{@|janMisali}}, "How do we know what's mainline?" That only talked about video games, but also could apply to non-games, but I think we need to play safe, so oppose. | ||
#{{User|Jazama}} Per all | #{{User|Jazama}} Per all | ||
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all. | |||
====Comments==== | ====Comments==== | ||
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#{{User|Sdman213}} Per all. | #{{User|Sdman213}} Per all. | ||
#{{User|Jazama}} Per all | #{{User|Jazama}} Per all | ||
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all. | |||
====Comments==== | ====Comments==== | ||
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::::::Indeed. On the Continuity talk page, Big Super Mario Fan admits he doesn't really know the comics that well, which is why he simply wrote "comics" as one universe instead. I imagine that if he was aware of how many comics there were, he'd want the incarnations of those to be split off too. {{User:Arend/sig}} 12:01, May 15, 2024 (EDT) | ::::::Indeed. On the Continuity talk page, Big Super Mario Fan admits he doesn't really know the comics that well, which is why he simply wrote "comics" as one universe instead. I imagine that if he was aware of how many comics there were, he'd want the incarnations of those to be split off too. {{User:Arend/sig}} 12:01, May 15, 2024 (EDT) | ||
:::::::Yes. [[User:SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)]] ([[User talk:SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|talk]]) 12:06, May 15, 2024 (EDT) | :::::::Yes. [[User:SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)]] ([[User talk:SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|talk]]) 12:06, May 15, 2024 (EDT) | ||
@Camwoodstock: | @Camwoodstock: | ||
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[[User:Big Super Mario Fan|Big Super Mario Fan]] ([[User talk:Big Super Mario Fan|talk]]) 18:36, May 15, 2024 (EDT) | [[User:Big Super Mario Fan|Big Super Mario Fan]] ([[User talk:Big Super Mario Fan|talk]]) 18:36, May 15, 2024 (EDT) | ||
:I think that official DLC descriptions like [https://www.nintendo.com/us/store/products/captain-toad-treasure-tracker-special-episode-70070000005061-switch/ here] ("[...] you can purchase the Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker - Special Episode DLC to '''continue your journey''' [...]"), website descriptions like [https://www.nintendo.com/en-gb/Games/Nintendo-Switch-games/Captain-Toad-Treasure-Tracker-1348071.html#Overview here] ("'''More adventures''' for Captain Toad and Toadette are available as paid downloadable content!"), and official trailer blurbs like [https://youtu.be/i5_VMuEUdqA?feature=shared here] ("Captain Toad and Toadette are '''back for more adventures'''!") kind of imply that the DLC takes place ''after'' the main game, not ''before''. Moreover, several of the levels in the DLC are revisitations of previous courses of the main game, with the Level names titled in a way that differentiates them from the original, similar to the remix levels of [[World Mushroom (Super Mario 3D World)|World Mushroom]] and [[World Flower (Super Mario 3D World)|World Flower]]. {{User:Arend/sig}} 19:26, May 15, 2024 (EDT) | :I think that official DLC descriptions like [https://www.nintendo.com/us/store/products/captain-toad-treasure-tracker-special-episode-70070000005061-switch/ here] ("[...] you can purchase the Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker - Special Episode DLC to '''continue your journey''' [...]"), website descriptions like [https://www.nintendo.com/en-gb/Games/Nintendo-Switch-games/Captain-Toad-Treasure-Tracker-1348071.html#Overview here] ("'''More adventures''' for Captain Toad and Toadette are available as paid downloadable content!"), and official trailer blurbs like [https://youtu.be/i5_VMuEUdqA?feature=shared here] ("Captain Toad and Toadette are '''back for more adventures'''!") kind of imply that the DLC takes place ''after'' the main game, not ''before''. Moreover, several of the levels in the DLC are revisitations of previous courses of the main game, with the Level names titled in a way that differentiates them from the original, similar to the remix levels of [[World Mushroom (Super Mario 3D World)|World Mushroom]] and [[World Flower (Super Mario 3D World)|World Flower]]. {{User:Arend/sig}} 19:26, May 15, 2024 (EDT) | ||
:Yeah, I agree with Hewer here. [[User:SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)]] ([[User talk:SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|talk]]) 08:37, May 16, 2024 (EDT) | |||
@Arend: | |||
Oh man! You're not making this easy for me. But the Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker DLC definitely happens before New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe, because they find the Super Crown here. | |||
[[User:Big Super Mario Fan|Big Super Mario Fan]] ([[User talk:Big Super Mario Fan|talk]]) 22:49, May 15, 2024 (EDT) | |||
:Explain the DLC descriptions! [[User:SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)]] ([[User talk:SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|talk]]) 08:37, May 16, 2024 (EDT) | |||
@Arend, @SONIC123CDMANIA, @Hewer: | |||
I know Rabbit Mario is not Mario. That was a mistake. I don't really care about the comics. You can't split every Mario incarnation. Because than we'd have 100 Mario pages, 100 Peach pages, Bowser pages. I was only taking about the Important once. For me those are. | |||
1. Mario (Main Mario Universe) | |||
2. Paper Mario | |||
(Paper Mario Universe) | |||
3. Alternate Mario | |||
(Mario + Rabbids Universe) | |||
4. Toy/Trophy Mario | |||
(Super Smash Bros. Universe) | |||
5. Cartoon Mario | |||
(Cartoon Universe) | |||
6. Animated Mario | |||
(The Super Mario Bros. Movie) | |||
7. Live-Action Mario | |||
(Super Mario Bros. Live-Action movie) | |||
[[User:Big Super Mario Fan|Big Super Mario Fan]] ([[User talk:Big Super Mario Fan|talk]]) 02:49, May 16, 2024 (EDT) | |||
:1, Rabbid Mario is TECHNICALLY a alternate Mario. 2, I never said ALL versions, as in official AND unofficial, just all official versions. 3, your arguments fail when taking into account multiverses within multiverses. [[User:SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)]] ([[User talk:SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|talk]]) 08:37, May 16, 2024 (EDT) | |||
===Create seperate pages for Level themes=== | ===Create seperate pages for Level themes=== | ||
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====Support==== | ====Support==== | ||
#{{User|Big Super Mario Fan}} - Per my proposal. | #{{User|Big Super Mario Fan}} - Per my proposal. | ||
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} Well, the proposer said it wasn't for repetition, so sure. | |||
====Oppose==== | ====Oppose==== | ||
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[[User:Big Super Mario Fan|Big Super Mario Fan]] ([[User talk:Big Super Mario Fan|talk]]) 18:42, May 15, 2024 (EDT) | [[User:Big Super Mario Fan|Big Super Mario Fan]] ([[User talk:Big Super Mario Fan|talk]]) 18:42, May 15, 2024 (EDT) | ||
:Ah, ok. Thanks. [[User:SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)]] ([[User talk:SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|talk]]) 08:44, May 16, 2024 (EDT) | |||
===Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form=== | ===Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form=== | ||